If God is Real…

William says:

If God is real,and He created you,and you believe this without a shadow of a doubt, then you would be like “us”. Tell me, how would you feel if were constantly told that you’re beliefs are but mere petty childish dreams. Would you appreciate it? I understand you lack of evidence to persuade you, but are you that alone that you can’t believe in this “God” I so aware serve? Is it that you have no evidence that you can’t believe or were you taught not to believe, or maybe even are you just not believe because you can? Evidence is but a small reaction to atheist. If you are an atheist then you made that choice not to believe,so stick to your disbelief…But if your ready to believe (I doubt you will be) then come to Him yourself. But, until then, it be wise of you to continue your disbelief. You say what you have to say, and we have to say what you do as well. This battle of He is/He isn’t will go on forever…So express yourself.
Thank You… WDC


8 Responses to If God is Real…

  1. The Atheist says:

    I think you are right in a certain sense: we would be like you because we would believe the same thing about God’s existence. However, we would still be unlike you in that we would have chosen to believe in God based on the evidence for a God, and not based on blind faith.

    I wouldn’t enjoy being told that my beliefs were baseless or childless. However, if my beliefs really were baseless or childless, I would be genuinely grateful to someone for straightening me out. Personally, I would much rather have that moment of discomfort as I’m shown that my beliefs are faulty, than to persist indefinitely in faulty beliefs.

    I’m not sure I understood what you meant when you ask ‘are you that alone that you can’t believe in God?’ Was this question for anyone in particular or for someone specific? In any case, I’ll answer from my own point of view. I personally don’t feel alone. I’m almost always surrounded by family and friends whom I love. So my disbelief doesn’t stem from any feeling of loneliness on my part. In any case, I’m not sure I understand the connection you are making between being alone and a disbelief in God. Could you explain?

    You mention that I can ‘come to Him by myself.’ How exactly can I do that? Will it show me that God exists? Have you done this yourself? If so, what did you do and what has it shown you?

  2. Amanda says:

    This is what im talking about. Being respectful. Saying that we have childish beliefs isn’t respect. This debate will go on forever. I do think it is great that there are sites that allow people to view how others believe. I think people should step back take a look at every option and go with what is right for them. It was right for you not to believe, I accept that, and I don’t think its stupid. I felt more compelled to believe in something, So instead of getting the same respect back from you. I get told im childish, and wrong. AND well you know you’re right. It just seems a little hypocritical.

  3. The Atheist says:

    I’m not sure why you would accuse me of saying that yours or someone else’s beliefs are childish. In the original post above, William asked how we (I’m guessing he means either me personally, or atheists in general) would like if we were called “childish”.

    Could you please explain?

  4. Amanda says:

    You and I both know that Atheist have a long record of making fun of people who have faith in a belief that hasn’t been proven.

    An example might be comparing faith to a milk jug which was posted somewhere on the site. Is that being respectful to someone else’s belief? Comparing faith ( a huge part of the religion) to a milk jug?

    Another question comes to mind. Do you think that video would really change a believer into a nonbeliever…. Probably not. Most likely it will just be offensive.

    I do want to take a moment to say that I think it is amazing that you are trying so hard to get people to be more educated. I bet it is a great feeling knowing that you are showing them that magic tricks aren’t real and that everything that they believed in is as stupid as believing that a milk jug can answer your prayers.

    You have to admit.. that video was a low blow… and couldn’t of been meant for any other reason other than to show people how stupid it is to have faith.

  5. The Atheist says:

    I’m happy to see that you have backed down from your accusation – that you are not “getting the same respect back from [me personally]” and that I personally am telling you that you are “childish”. But now you seem to be asking me to answer for other unnamed atheists who make fun of Christianity. Your new message seems to be that “all you atheists are disrespectful”. Here is an old thread where I’ve expressed my personal thoughts on this subject.

    While I’m not interested in labeling any particular belief as “silly”, I am interested in challenging beliefs that are wrong or fallacious. A few examples of wrong beliefs are the belief that evolution does not occur, or the belief that the Bible is inerrant. These beliefs are wrong because they are at odds with demonstrable facts. An example of a fallacious belief is that Christianity must be the true religion since 2 thirds of the Earth’s population is Christian. The fallacy is presenting the majority belief as proof of correctness when we know that the majority doesn’t always believe correctly.

    Beliefs like these are important. They embolden individuals and even whole societies to commit atrocious acts in the name of God. Individuals cite these ideas to justify the killing of abortion-clinic workers (events we’ve seen in recent history). Societies cite these ideas to justify the murder and torture those who do not share their beliefs (the Inquisition is an example), to steal land from whole ethnic groups (for example squatting on Palestinian land), and to commit the wholesale murder of thousands of innocent civilians (the attack on the World Trade Center is an example).

    Do I think that conversations like these change minds? I know that they do from interactions with people that I have these conversations with. I think the jug video is a powerful message to people that believe that they have “proof” that prayer works. I can’t count the number of people I’ve met who believe in God because of this “proof”.

    Is the “Jug video” disrespectful? Whether you feel that it is disrespectful may depend on whether you feel it is OK to challenge ideas and to present your reasons for the challenge. I’ll assume since you are in this conversation and you are challenging my idea that “educating people is good”, that you believe that it is OK in general to challenge ideas. Personally, I don’t see any reason why religion should hold any special status above other ideas or philosophies that would make it beyond reproach. Not only do I feel that the argument of the “Jug video” is not a disrespectful argument, I feel that the presentation was done in a particularly respectful manor. Will it change minds? I think it has a slim to none chance of changing the minds of those who are averse to honest introspection about their beliefs. On the other hand, I think it is an important consideration for those who do honestly think about what they believe and why they believe it and it will influence their conclusion.

  6. Amanda says:

    We will just have to agree to disagree on the Jug Video. If you are educating the believers and trying to show them proof of no God. I wouldn’t have the jug video on your front page. It’s only a suggestion, because it really turned me off to the whole idea. I really felt like the whole concept of it was belitting. (Just my opinion though).

    Sorry if I am generalizing all atheist into people that make believers feel stupid. I could never know if that were true because I haven’t met every atheist in the entire world. But usually when a believer and a nonbeliever are having a conversation it usually always turn south because someone gets their feelings hurt.

    The last thing I would like to point out is, Every faith has radicals, every group has had radicals. But I don’t think we should judge an entire group of people on the things that a few of them do within it.

    I know that this debate could go on forever, because im probably never going to change my mind, at least nothing like this would ever bring about change to my mind, (I’ve already put too much effort in defending it, LOL) And you will not change your mind, not like this. But we can respectfully agree to disagree and go our different ways before something is said that is so analyzed that the entire situation gets out of control.

    Thanks for your time, I do love a good debate!

  7. Michael H says:

    This is the problem that an atheist faces when confronted with a believer. We are no intending to say you are dumb to believe in a Mr. Wizard in the sky. But let me ask you this question. Would you vote for a President who believed unerringly in the omnipotent power of Santa Claus, or Zeus, or Leprechauns and claimed, with certainty, that these beings guided his life and everyone else’s on the planet? And I defy you to tell me what the difference between Alla, Jesus, Zeus, the Sun God, or Santa Claus. At one time or another the worlds people believed in one or many of those. Would you trust such a person with a hand on the nuclear war button? When someone has an irrational belief it is hard to take them rationally. It suggests a flaw in thinking, an acquiescence to stuff pumped into you at childhood which you are afraid to question. It takes courage to say I don’t know something. It takes a huge amount of courage to release yourself from the shackles of slavery to some fictitious being who watches you, reads your mind, keeps score, and judges you when you die without any legal council with a verdict of eternal hell or heaven.
    It takes real courage to see that you are just a small part of the food chain of life with no particular noble purpose and we are going to get sick and die no matter how hard you pray otherwise. We are simply here and we might as well enjoy the trip. My cat does not sit around trying to figure out why he is here. He simply lives his life. It is only humans who can contemplate their own mortality who need to invent a cushy place in the sky where they will go when they die. It is an utterly egotistical and arrogant idea that only a child could come up with. Invent an invisible friend. Why not. But children grow out of it. I have to wonder what’s the matter with “believers” who can never let go of this convenient fantasy.
    You would question a child’s belief in Santa Claus if the kid was 27 years old. Not so with religion and God. We have to respect their insanity? Tell me why. It is not a 50/50 probability that there is a God. Like he is or he isn’t. That’s what religionist’s want to claim. This is nonsense. Probabilities are based on facts, demonstrable evidence. If I see you with a smoking gun registered in your name, and finger prints and the bullet lodged in the victims brain was fired from that gun, I can say with high probability, not a 50/50 chance that you killed the victim. What evidence do you have for a belief in God? Nothing but a subjective feeling that he is there for you and your insisting that any co-incidence in life must have been created by God. God heals, answers prayers. Where is the evidence. Hundreds of thousands of believers who once had cancer believe that their prayers were answered. How come not one believing amputee who prayed for a new leg ever got one since the beginning of time? Because it’s not physically possible and cancers do go away all by themselves sometimes, that’s why and the evidence shows it. It’s the nature of life, and has nothing to do with a God. Imagine if this being had to take sides every day in everyone’s life. Whose prayers are answered and whose are not. Which side in a war where both sides believe they are righteous and have god on their side wins ? You can’t answer any of these important questions rationally can you.

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